The Mighty MOPARS!

[BUCKY]

There have been a couple questions asked in other threads, so I thought I'd start this one for a place of reference.
Here is the engine from the AMT '49 Mercury kit, used in my Dodge TowTruck:


It has the cross ram intake,which fits the carbs between the valve covers...barely!!


This engine has the long ram intake runners from the early sixties MOPARS.
Quite exotic looking, to say the least. I know several JoHan kits had these setups.
I don't know if any other kitmaker ever did one up.

If anybody has any other info on the heritage of MOPAR engines, go ahead and put it here! Might be interesting, and helpful!!

[BUCKY]

Now....if ya wanna go all out.....




It never ends!!!!!!

[Deleted]

So you guys as I mentioned I'd get to fill in a bit of information on This thread. So, here goes!

NOW, I don't know it all on them BUT what I do know, is well, "A LOT" I grew up around them, worked on family cars & trucks that are Mopar, and had my share of Fun with the Famed 426 Hemi's!!!

So then, how's about a little lesson? Intakes:

Chrysler in the late 1950's was doing all sorts of things on engines as most of us know there were the OLD original "A" block Hemi's as well as the old "A" block Poly's, these engine? the Hemi, was the top of the line, the Poly's was the Plymouth "Grocery Getter" engines! Hemi's have double shaft heads, where as the Poly's have single shaft (to cut cost) BUT have a lot of the same aspects. Except the combustion chambers! We all know what a Hemi combustion chamber looks like, HOWEVER the Poly Head combustion chamber is a bit different!



This ---^

Is the top & bottom of a Poly Head Mopar engine! The part of these engines are unique is the fact that the valve cover is a bit different and a really good spotting feature! See:





This Valve Cover would be found on any of the following engine sizes: 241 - 270 & 301 - 325. These were the first ones!

Then you have these:



This shape of valve cover were only on the Poly head 277 & 318! NOT DO NOT confuse the "318" poly with the LA "318" -2 DIFFERENT engines 2 different era's of time!

Then this is what those engines "whole" would have looked like:



This one ---^ -Is a "301"



This one ---^ -Is A "318"

Stay tuned, MORE to follow!

[Deleted]

So then in '56 & '57, Chrysler got to messing with a Wedge-Head idea to cut the cost of the Hemi and Poly production lines! SO, having said that in '58, They came out with the FIRST Mopar "BIG Block", the "B" engine, "350"!!!! THEN in '59 came the "B" engine "361". They then got that same block to come out to the "383", and was one of THEE best engines Chrysler made! The "383" production was cancelled in '72 in-place and favor for yet one more "B" engine, the "400". So you have "B" engines, 350, 361, 383 (MOST common), & 400.

THEN you get into a whole "OTHER" beast, the "RB" engines.... They came out in '59. Starting with the "RB" Big Block "413" The "B" engine "383" AND the "RB" engine "413" is what started all the intake types we were talking about! "RB" engines, include 383 (YES, 2 different engines of the 383 engine size!), 413, 426 (NOT just the Hemi, it however began life as a Wedge 426!), and then the 440. SO, you have "RB" engines 383, 413, 426, & 440

BUT before I get into that, The differences of the "B" engines to the "RB" engines is this:

The "B" engines had a low deck height, of 9.98 inches. Followed by a stroke of 3.375 inches!
The "RB" engines had a higher deck height, of 10.725 inches. Followed by a stroke of 3.75 inches!

The "B" is standard for "B"ig Block, the "RB" is standard for "R"aised "B"ig Block.

NOW, considering these 2 engine types, are in fact different, they can interchange heads, and some internal parts. EXCEPT pistons, and the intake! You can put "RB" 440 heads onto a "B" 383 without issue AS LONG as the 383's original intake is used!

NOW the fun will begin!

[Deleted]

SO, with this short engine lesson, Chrysler got to playing around with intakes and carburetor set-ups to see what was thee best way to get more out of a given engine design! (I can get REAL technical here, but won't) But, not only did they make and try different intakes and carburetor set up's they also played with compression ratio's as well as valve timing, and even port sizes to supply air & gas into the cylinders BUT also allow it to breathe out the exhaust ports better too! EVEN manifolds! -I'll get into that in a bit!

So, we all were going around on the Long-Arm "Cross-Ram" intake. there are several DIFFERENT versions of this!

The first one was offered on the "B" engine "361"



This all started in 1960..... Thing is, this was just the beginning of their designs too! The Long-Arm Cross-Ram were more noted on the "383" and were named "383 Sonoramic Commando" They were used A LOT in the bigger more luxury cars of Chrysler, & Plymouth!



Same intake, yes, BUT its on a "RB" engine "413".

NOW, because I've said you can bolt any "B" engine and "RB" engine heads, the Long-Arm Cross-Ram's can go on ANY of the 2 engine types! Notice, the first one? Thats a "B" 361! Then you seen it on a 413!



SAME intake, OK? You now see that SOMEONE, NOT Chrysler, bolted those intakes onto a "RB" 440!

BUT these Long-Arm Cross-Rams were made 2 different ways as well! See:



Notice the runners on one is split all the way from the carburetor to the head flange. The other one, that split only runs about half way of the runners. Chrysler engineers did this to try and tune the intake to see what worked best, on whatever engine the intake was applied!

These Long-Arm Cross-Rams were meant for LOW RPM use, which didn't produce A LOT of Horsepower, but what they did do, was produce A LOT of Torque, at a much lower RPM on ANY given engine applied!

The Long-Arm, Cross-Ram seen above, will never be seen on a Hemi, As they were strictly used for low RPM's and Hemi's (ANY OF THEM) LOVED H-I-G-H RPM's....

Stay tuned more to come!

[Deleted]

NOW, to move right along to the "other" "Cross-Ram" the one MOST of us know.... This one has quite the history! As you'll see following along!

The 2x4 Cross-Ram, was first put onto a "RB" 413:





These were the On-Set of the Mopar "Big Orange Monster" thats known as the Max-Wedge 426. HOWEVER the first 413's with this Cross-Ram intake was know as the High-Performance "Ram-Charger" engine! (A LOT of guys not knowingly will call them "Max-Wedge" engines, and they are not! There was NEVER a Stage 1 of these engines either! Not until the 426 came out with the intake and special heads you see here!



And now you see the FULL-ON Chrysler "Max-Wedge! This engine was a BEAST! For what it was, 426 cubic inch, and WEDGE-Head design was something on the track! Notice the exhaust manifolds too! Those were the first "Ram-Horn" exhaust manifolds for these engines ONLY these would NOT bolt up to ANY other head! They were special made for this very reason! BUT those too, are to change as you'll see in a bit!







This one ---^ has "Fender-Well Headers" applied to it!

THEN the Stage 3 426 Max-Wedge:



Notice the exhaust manifolds? These are thee BEST exhaust manifolds EVER made for any V-8! They're made in such a way, that they act as tho they ARE "Headers" NOT manifolds as we would know them! -This is also when the nic name "Ram-Horn" Manifolds came into play & stuck!





A really good view of the exhaust manifolds that go to ONLY the true "Max-Wedge" 426....

Now a little technical info on this. Say, you have a 440? You also have a set of Max-Wedge heads. You want to make your 440 a Max-Wedge, but will it work? YES! The Max-Wedge heads will bolt right to the 440 block without a problem! BUT you got only the intake from the 440 and not the Cross-Ram from the Max-Wedge, the intake WILL not bot up to the heads correctly, they will BUT you won't be getting full use of the heads as the post runners aren't the same! The Max-Wedge Cross-Ram intake WILL bolt right onto the 440 without any trouble too, BUT you can't take just the heads of the Max-Wedge and put them onto a 440 and call it a Max-Wedge, as the intake is tuned to the intake ports of the heads.... And then the exhaust well. you can go any route on that you wish, BUT as long as the exhail flow is there. BUT the Max-Wedge itself, the intake and heads are the key!

Heres the difference in the heads:



See how much larger the Max-Wedge heads ports are? This is tuned to the intake itself! The Stock B/RB head also has a "center" inlet for exhaust to heat the intake for winter running where as the Max-Wedge heads don't have nor need this!

These:



Are the STOCK "OEM" 440 exhaust manifolds, that will fit ALL of the "street" "B" or "RB" engines! Found on just about ALL of the street cars!



These---^

Are the FIRST High Performance "Ram Chargers" exhaust manifolds....



This one ---^ is just one side of the last "Ram-Horn" exhaust manifolds.... These were made so well that they were considered a CAST "Header" as they worked as well as actual pipe headers do! -I might add here ANY and ALL Mopar guys with "Max-Wedge" powered cars, these exhaust manifolds are VERY sought after for what they are!

[Deleted]

So then we'll get into more of that "Cross-Ram" found on the Max-Wedge engines, shall we? SURE, why not!

These intakes were designed, to be run and used at HIGH RPMs.... Meaning, they produced A LOT of Horsepower, but were weaker on the Torque factor! BUT in racing, HORSEPOWER is what you want..... As the old Adage goes, "HORSEPOWER is how FAST you hit the wall..... TORQUE is how far you DRAG the wall with you!"

SO that being said, There have been a NUMBER of these HIGH RPM Cross-Rams made for different applications in racing! (EVEN street use!)



Nicely unpainted Cross-Ram!

They took these intakes and done sorts of things with them! I mean REALLY blew the use right out of the water with them! Specially on the track! Maurice Petty, even went to make one to house a single Holley 4 barrel, that got nic named "NASCAR Bathtub", intake. Powered A LOT of his Brother Richard's 426 Hemi powered cars!

SO, in the days BEFORE the 426 Hemi, Chrysler engine department got to messing with that Cross-Ram to see just how far they could take it..... And we'll, there are some things on that intake, I'd simply would have loved to see! For instance:



YES! Your eyes do not deceive you. thats a stock one on the left in orange paint, and an unpainted one on the right! The unpainted one? has FOUR, 4 barrel carburetor mounting planes! This is STOCK OEM right from Chrysler too!



Same FOUR, 4 Barrel intake with Carburetors IN-PLACE! Granted, this intake wasn't mass-Produced, only a couple exist today, as they were "Test-Beds" for the 426 Max-Wedge engine..... That was all dropped when the men in black suits came to visit the engine department and said, HEY we want a "Legend".. so they took what they already had, and began working on taking the heads from a 392 Hemi and fitting them to their NEWEST block.... the 426 Wedge! Thus, thats how the infamous 426 Hemi was born! It too, sported a HIGH RPM "Cross-Ram", and in that time, over time had changed to become more & more to the application in which it was used!

They even make a adapter plate, to fit the 2x4 HIGH RPM Cross-Rams to have FOUR, 4 Barrels! See:



As mentioned in a few posts ago, with Mopar.... it NEVER ends!

[Deleted]

And as you all can guess, you can't use a Wedge Cross-Ram on a Hemi, the intake ports simply do NOT match up at all.... as the ports on a Hemi are evenly spaced, on the Wedge, the intake ports are spread away from center (Center of the head was made to have the center 2 cylinder exhaust ports there).

There is ALSO a Cross-Ram made to fit the Mopar "LA" small blocks as well..... A LOT of guys with 340's have them! -MOST of this stuff tho, is aftermarket NOT "OEM" stock!

[Deleted]

As for models? The Long-Arm Cross-Rams, were done originally by Jo-Hans, on SEVERAL of their kits! Then you have those found on Tom Daniels "Paddy Wagon" kit (not exactly a Mopar looking intake, BUT has the "looks" and Mopar Influence to that intake!)

Then you have the Resin stuff, Ross Gibson made a set of these, BUT I think they might be a little "big for 1/24th and or 1/25th scale, as his engines from what I have from him are BIG, more so then should be! I have a Ross Gibson 392 Hemi in 1/25th scale that literally bigger then my Revell 426 Hemi! Problem being? The 426 Hemi WAS a HUGE engine in real life, was easily 1/4th the size bigger then what they should be! The 426 Hemi was named the "Elephant" for a reason!

As for all that the Revell 426 Super Stock with the HIGH RPM Cross-Ram is NICELY detailed but seemingly one side has a higher carburetor then the other side, SO, I'm not sure WHY they did that! As if they kept the Carburetor Planes the same horizontal height, it be a GREAT Cross-Ram! The old 1990's era AMT-Ertl Cross-Ram that came with the '70 Coronet Super Bee kit was a GREAT one too (I use this one A LOT for making other types of Cross-Rams!) This same intake ALSO came with the AMT-Ertl '70 Coronet Super Bee "Pro-Street" kit! -Same kit has the 426 DOHC Hemi in it as well!

[BUCKY]

A little snippet of info I found on Allpar.com:


www.allpar.com/WEDGE.HTML

[Deleted]

Keith,
Yep MOST of what I posted is on Allpar! (I'm a member there as well as here!)

[BUCKY]

Here is a 413 longram at work. This is in a '34 Plymouth rat rod from north Alabama. The owner said it is scary fast, and doesn't have modern brakes, so slowing it down is equally as scary!!

[Deleted]

I bet that goes like a scared Jack-Rabbit!!!!! NICE use of one of the ole 413 High Performance Wedge engines!!!!! I LOVE the looks of the air cleaners that stick out like that altho, I myself would have used Blower Hats instead of round air cleaners..... Looks a bunch meaner in my book!

[JCON]

I thought this thread should be where we can find it for Reference pics of awesome powerhouses!!!

[BUCKY]

Good job, Joe!! Thanks!!

[JCON]

You're welcome Boss Man!!!

[JED]

Interesting reading,thanks

[JCON]

I thought so too when I stumbled across it!!!