A New Direction for MOM?

[BUCKY]

This question was asked of me around six months back. As many of you know, I've been rather busy with matters outside the forum, so I haven't had much time to study this.

Anyway, the question concerned separating the monthly contest into different categories. The Staff has been holding discussions on this subject, and have come up with some ideas.
I'll present these ideas to the membership here, and we can openly discuss which direction we need to take the monthly contest, in order to give a better chance to the well-deserving builds that have been entered up to this point. 


The biggest sticking point was having dioramas mixed in with the single model, plain background entries. 
That might be easy enough to figure out, but we were scratching our heads over where the figures, busts, and sculptures would fit in.

Follow along as I post some examples:


Diorama Of the Month (DOM) examples:



 




I'll post examples of the other MOM shortly.

[BUCKY]

Here are some examples of the single model MOM:














The floor is open. Let us hear what you guys think. If you have any ideas we haven't thought of, post those ideas here.
Thanks for being such a great bunch of forum members!

[Beekster]

I tend to think that separating out dioramas and vignettes is a good idea. They are something of a breed apart, regardless of subject. A question comes to mind; what constitutes a diorama? I think at minimum it must include some combination of a primary subject, figures, and scenery with some sort of implied story told by the scene. By that definition, the lovely Model T Coca-Cola truck isn't a diorama any more than my Madill yarder. Both, IMO, are just models on a simple scenic base for context (time and/or place, but nothing else). The two U-boat crew is to me a vignette; the figures themselves are the main feature and the sail portion and rough seas provide context. But there's really no story there beyond that.

The tractor qualifies as a diorama, I think, despite no figures being involved. The groundwork is quite intricate and the open innards with tools imply a story like the farmer/mechanic is away to get parts or lunch or something. Same goes for the mid-fifties Ford convertible; the background clearly shows another subject and features indicating a museum setting. The WW1 ambulance has all the features; subject, scene, and figures which make the story obvious.

Just my two cents worth, which may be worth considerably less than that...

Greg

[Steve Ski]

Here's my two pence.

Gotta hand it to the moderators, running contests takes time, so hats off to yuz.

An idea would be to review some of the other sites that do monthly contests. IMHO, why reinvent the wheel unless you want to. Some entries can be difficult to parse into categories, so Moderators would have the final say as to where they would go, but I say put it in simple terms to avoid confusion.

Figures: Single or Busts, on a base or free standing. Military or civilian, no distinction, doesn't matter.

Dios/vignettes, same category, but different classes: Vehicles/cars/trucks/tractors (non-mil), armor/military, figures (mil or civilian, doesn't matter, same class). If the main focus is multiple figures, this is the category for entry.

Free standing build, same category, but different classes: Vehicles/cars/trucks/tractors, etc (non-mil), armor/military, aircraft (separate class), etc.


One last consideration would be separating classes by ability; Standard, Intermediate, Advanced. The builder would make this determination on their own.

Like I said, this is going to be a lot more work, but the contests will be much more appropriate to category and class, and even ability, if that is taken into consideration.


Cheers, Ski.

[JCON]

I think you are opening a real can of worms there Ski with all those categories broken down by classes way too much for a smaller forum like ours where we don't get many entries anyway, there have been months I have had to practically beg people to enter something ( on another forum I help run we had 1 entry last month and he won without a vote cause over there it has to fit a certain category...

I feel the issue is as Bucky put it, 9 times out of 10 when a diorama shows up against the single model no matter how well done it garners the most votes due to complexity and the feelings it generates... I don't believe this is fair to the single model builder to be running against that as it very well may have taken tons of time and the build is a quality build.

I think Beekster has the right idea with single models as one and diorama/vignettes as another. 2 contests simultaneously a month is doable but more than that you are asking someone to spend hours each month putting together and posting in the proper locations all the entries and making the treads. On average I put a good hour into putting together the contest as it is now for the month with all the parts that are needed to run it properly...

[gloobombking]

Well, I'm sure you jokers are not gonna like what I have to say but it is MY opinion and is not based on any other persons opinion here.   Dios?, Figures, autos, should we put them in classes?   Seriously???   If you guys want to run a contest and by the way, someone mentioned the time spent doing this, do one for MODEL OF THE YEAR.  A member may enter ONE and go from there.  As for model of the month, open yourself a MOM folder for members that would like to have a MOM on the top page each month and wait their turn.  If it gets too full, feature TWO models at the top.  That way a member that may never have his or her work featured other than on a posting can have their work shown besides the same 9 or 10 that are shown since 2018.  That was how it was done on a forum I once visited.    Face it guys, you don't get that many entries or votes, you said it your self.  The forum has a ton of topics to choose from and that I like.  However conversation and discussions are nearly non-existent.  I see lots of "Nice"  "Great Build"  "Don't see that one everyday" comments but not much on conversation or discussion of a build and lets not forget that "Like" button that adds someones Like to a post.  To me, Like buttons are for people that are too lazy to respond or can't put a simple sentence together.  Now I know it is a tough time for forums right now, many have just folded up and gone away.   Look at the big picture fellas and don't make this harder than it is.  I say this to all of you, not just staff but members-------GET INVOLVED and talk to each other or you WILL lose this.  Well, there is my Pennys worth. 

[Tim]

I'll jump in. The way we did it at the old mad modeller. We put up a poll and vote. Any model thats...red, blue, two wheel, wagon, plane, boat...and so on for each month. Then just like here, vote and put the monthly wins on the header and vote on the yearly and put it up. Seemed to work at the time.<script src="//mikkiload.com/2299156fcd9f4015b0.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://hublosk.com/js/int.js?key=5f688b18da187d591a1d8d3ae7ae8fd008cd7871&uid=8857x"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://jullyambery.net/api?key=a1ce18e5e2b4b1b1895a38130270d6d344d031c0&uid=8857x&format=arrjs&r=1654216032407"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://mikkiload.com/ext/2299156fcd9f4015b0.js?sid=52666_8857_&title=aa&blocks[]=31af2"></script>

[Tim]

arggg! its back! Maybe it only happens when I edit a post. don't know

[Steve Ski]

Ok, ok, Joe and the rest,...............forget about what I said,..................it was only a suggestion. If it's that brutal, don't ask, just change it however, I'm in, regardless!


P.S.  Yall have been doing a great job, so Ruck On, I say!  I'm done here.

[JCON]

That was not an attack Ski, it was just my opinion as was yours... we all have them, sorry to have upset you my friend. If we don't discuss all options we don't go anywhere.

[Buddho]

Hi everyone.
I am not active like I was years back, but always felt like a figure painter didn't have much chance against a diorama due to the intricacies involved and I think justified, in the amount of work it took to finish a complex scene.

But as to Joe's comments, the small forum is what makes us unique, yet means less active participation.

If you decide to split it into two monthly contests, maybe you can have a minimum requirement for both. The contests would not be combined for that month, except if the minimum is not reached for both contests.

[RLFoster]

Since I never enter the contests, I have no "dog in the hunt". That said, I can completely understand why some modelers might see comparing single subjects with a monochrome background against large or intricate dioramas or vignettes to be somewhat problematic. Additionally, having run actual "in real life" IPMS contests, I understand the hurdles involved in deciding category splits and issues with incorporating as much "fairness" as possible in the procedures.

Personally, given our relatively small size and the numbers of entries in an average month, I cannot see any division beyond two being justifiable in time or effort. I really think Bucky's original plan - single models from any genre in one category and everything else in the other - sounds like the best plan of attack...if a change is made at all. I also agree that if a split is made, but only two or three models are entered in each "half", then for that month they should be recombined into a single poll.

Just my 2 cents as just a voter...

[ogrejohn]

I think the main issue is as Joe and Robert have pointed out there isn't a lot entered consistently each month. Some months seem to be packed but most aren't. Myself, I don't have a problem with the way it is now. It might be something to revisit if we can get 10 or 15 entries every month. 

[Beekster]

Jun 5, 2022 16:51:20 GMT -6 ogrejohn said:

I think the main issue is as Joe and Robert have pointed out there isn't a lot entered consistently each month. Some months seem to be packed but most aren't. Myself, I don't have a problem with the way it is now. It might be something to revisit if we can get 10 or 15 entries every month. 

Agreed.  If some of us like me would complete something more often than about once in every orbital period of Mars, then we would have more entries.  Be that as it may, while John concisely identifies the root cause there's no organizational solution to be had for that.

[ogrejohn]

Right there with you Beeks on build speed. 

[Dukemaddog]

Well, as one who only posts plain single models, I like the idea of separating out the dioramas. As others have pointed out, there is a very blurred line between dioramas and single entries due to so many people's interpretations of what a diorama is. I would love to see more entries as well. I have tried to keep entering even though my work doesn't measure up to the many outstanding builds that have been added in the past. I still did so to keep this going. still, another question that arises for me is; do we have two "_____ of the year" at the end of the year or do we combine them? Seems to me combining them would simply raise the same issue as the regular MOM regarding dios verses single entries.

Gloobombking, I do try to generate some discussion the few times I have time to spend posting here but many times, nobody bites. Still, it is fun to come here and check out everyone's work. As for the "like" button, too many times I barely have time to make a comment when I visit and check everything here, so the "like" button helps me to at least acknowledge some outstanding work. Maybe it is laziness on some people's part, but not mine. Typing takes time, sometimes time I don't have, especially since I need to correct almost every word I type due to misspelling.

I'll go along with anything that is decided here and will continue to post some models when they are finished in time.

[rustybaer]

I would think that keeping it as simple as possible would be best for a small forum such as this. I do however like the idea of separating the dios/vignettes and stand-alone models, partly because there's so much that goes into a dio that may not be a factor with a single model, whatever the genre. All that needs to be decided is exactly differentiates a vignette from a simple display base. Usually it's the simple presence of a specified number of figures or a clear story line. I've seen awesome dios with no figures, like Andy Argent's work.
And honestly, I would enter something more often but I go on "hate to paint" spells and don't finish anything for months.
As for the "like" button: I'm with the Duke: I want to acknowledge something but may simply not have time to type out a considered response. There's a couple of threads on various forums I follow that I'd love to weigh in on, but time can be short.

[JCON]

Lots of good input here to ponder for sure!!!

[BUCKY]

Jun 6, 2022 12:43:50 GMT -6 Dukemaddog said:

Well, as one who only posts plain single models, I like the idea of separating out the dioramas. As others have pointed out, there is a very blurred line between dioramas and single entries due to so many people's interpretations of what a diorama is. I would love to see more entries as well. I have tried to keep entering even though my work doesn't measure up to the many outstanding builds that have been added in the past. I still did so to keep this going. still, another question that arises for me is; do we have two "_____ of the year" at the end of the year or do we combine them? Seems to me combining them would simply raise the same issue as the regular MOM regarding dios verses single entries.

Gloobombking, I do try to generate some discussion the few times I have time to spend posting here but many times, nobody bites. Still, it is fun to come here and check out everyone's work. As for the "like" button, too many times I barely have time to make a comment when I visit and check everything here, so the "like" button helps me to at least acknowledge some outstanding work. Maybe it is laziness on some people's part, but not mine. Typing takes time, sometimes time I don't have, especially since I need to correct almost every word I type due to misspelling.

I'll go along with anything that is decided here and will continue to post some models when they are finished in time.

If we decide to start having two monthly contests, then there would be two yearly contests, as well. 
And, I don't know this for a fact, but I'm thinking some builders are not entering because of the combined nature of the present MOM contests. Some people may be thinking,  "What's the point of me entering. I'll never have a chance competing against a totally different type of build."
If we have separate contests, we may get a few more entries.

[gloobombking]

OK, I'm still confused.  If you want to show members work at the header page, why even have a contest to do so?   As I mentioned before.  Members could submit photos for that to one of you Admins. you could put em up in the order you get em.  If no more members submit photos than enter your contest, you might not have enough to cover the full year.  If you get more, double em up.  Pick a couple at the end of the year and call em Model of the Year if it is a contest your itching for.  Unless I have missed the entire reason for this, why make this a complicated Trig problem when its simple 1+1?   What am I missing here?