jerry
GAINING SPEED
I'm all shook up.
Posts: 318
Likes: 803
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Post by jerry on Dec 15, 2021 19:35:46 GMT -6
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Post by RLFoster on Dec 16, 2021 4:54:52 GMT -6
I feel for your cousins, Jerry, but unfortunately without knowing the other entries, I can't comment on the award placement. That said, the IPMS system of negatively-based judging and their focus on flawlessness above creativity, is the primary reason I left the organization about 10 years ago. It is an unfortunate truth that generally speaking, the larger the project, the less likely it is to place in an IPMS contest. She is a beautifully build model and obviously a passion project. Please pass on my, "Well Done" wishes to them.
[EDIT: Clarification of perspective]
Jerry, my comments do not (as somewhat implied) come from a position of confusion or lack of understanding. For over 12 years I was an IPMS-USA judge and for 4 of those years I was the Head Judge and Contest Director for our local IPMS-USA club's annual model show and contest. I taught the category judges how to evaluate models directly from the IPMS-USA Judge's Handbook. I completely understand how IPMS-USA wants judging to happen and more importantly WHY they want it that way...I just happen to deeply disagree with those reasons on a philosophical level.
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Post by dogfish7 (R.I.P.) on Dec 16, 2021 7:44:19 GMT -6
What Rob said!
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Post by Dukemaddog on Dec 17, 2021 19:17:17 GMT -6
I'd like to also commend you on an outstanding model! That is phenomenal work! Pass my commendations on as well.
In defense of IPMS as a 20+year member and judge at numerous shows, I also cannot comment on the placement either, based on only the one set of pics. I also will agree somewhat that many of the smaller clubs tend to "pick their own" which is part of the reason they are still small clubs and shows. Larger contests like Orangecon, San Diego Modelers, and Las Vegas Modelers are far more fair and unbiased in judgement. That doesn't mean there is the occasional issue with a bad call; after all we are all human and stuff can get past us. But we do have a very fair reputation and that is why we are the largest and most prestigious contests in the Southern California/Nevada region.
I'd also like to respectfully disagree with Robert's assessment of IPMS judging. Yes there is a focus on correct assembly procedures; after all how else does one judge a collection of models that all entrants feel is an award winning model when they place it on a table? I've seen numerous creative models that are stunning to look at; but when someone makes one and does all this extra creativity to it but fails to align his landing gear or doesn't fill that large seam on the spine; it takes away from all that great work and makes one wonder why he didn't fix it when he was building it. Should he place over someone who took the time to make his model more correctly built by insuring everything that is supposed to be aligned is aligned; or that the glass is clear and free of glue smudges and the seams and gaps are filled before he applies his own possibly not-so-creative creativity?
I recall an armor model where a guy had built a halftrack and added a full P/E interior, as well as other detail parts. From the first glance it looked phenomenal, and still does from a slight distance. At first I and several others on my judging team was inclined to give it First because of all the work this guy did. However, once I looked through his documentation, I could clearly see how his photo etch parts were not aligned in the hull; they weren't even assembled straight, with numerous gaps and glue-filled seams. In short, he was exceptionally sloppy with his aftermarket assemblies. In all honesty it looked like he'd sped through all that just to get this model painted where he went all out. I just wonder why I should have given him the award because of all the extra creativity that he applied, when there were other models that were assembled more carefully to make them look right before adding all the bells and whistles.
In short, IPMS judging may seem "negative" from the onset but when it comes to choosing the best model on the table (in a fairly judged contest that is) Creativity and Scope of Effort come into play in a big way; especially when judging 1/35th scale armor and all scales of aircraft and ships. For Sci-fi, fantasy, "what if", Miscellaneous, and humorous categories where creativity is given it's head, then it is greatly taken into account in a bigger way. Anyone who hasn't judged in a fairly judged contest doesn't understand this because they truly don't know what judges are truly looking for and they tend to fixate on the fact that we judges "only" look for flaws.
Model building is such a subjective hobby with multiples of subjects in each genre; where people apply their own techniques to make the model look the way it appears in their head using multiple techniques and practices, thus increasing the variables that contest chairmen have to take into account when planning a contest. None of our stuff fits into nice neat and clean little groups or categories like other contests where every entry is the same as every other one so who made it more creatively. If you don't believe me, consider how many times a contest 'splits' categories...
Finally, look through all the posts of everyone's works in progress that everyone posts here...
Everyone is always showing on their build blogs here and elsewhere where they had to "fix" a model because something didn't "look right" or didn't look "realistic" enough. Everyone makes comments on the gaps, seams, alignment and fit of parts and take steps to fix them all to the best of their abilities. These are the basics that everyone does when building models. These are the same things that IPMS judges look at when judging; all we are doing is checking out who did the better job of something everyone already does! And yes, when someone adds all the extra scratch built details, aftermarket resin and photo etch details to make their model more "accurate" or more attractive and detailed we take all that into consideration after we choose who did the better job of fixing all the basic issues that everyone does already in all their posts on here, in meetings and on other boards! Hence there is the positive side of IPMS judging that nobody ever takes into consideration.
Some people on other Forums who've seen my work over a longer period of time have commented that I have improved quite a bit since those early days of posting. Part of that that, yes it is because of Forums like these where I pick up new ideas and techniques; but I have to give more credit with my improvement to my time judging models in numerous contests. I learned through judging how to see those niggling issues on my own models and fix them before they become something that would be too difficult to fix once the model is painted/weathered/detailed etc.
It's too bad so many people give IPMS such a bad rap because they don't see this whole picture, or make the connection that all we do is look at how well everyone did the same basic techniques that they themselves point out in blogs.
Okay, my apologies for the long post. I've already said too much that most disagree with so back to our regularly scheduled program.....
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Post by JED on Dec 21, 2021 11:19:47 GMT -6
Great build by your cousins Jerry
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Post by JCON on Dec 22, 2021 14:08:03 GMT -6
A beautifully built Sub!!! I would be proud to have that in a display anytime!!!
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