Questions for the armor builders

[DPNM]

At some point I would like to try my hand at some armor. The tanks that interest me most are the two from the movie Kelly's Heros.

I want to build them in 1/35th scale.

From what I've read of them the Sherman is an M4. What kit would be the best place to start?

And I've read the Tigers used were heavily modified Russian T-34s. This is where I need the most help. Would it be better to find a Tiger kit and a T34 kit and build off them or convert a Russian T34??

I know I'm not the first to build these and I know mine won't be the best but it's where I'd like to start.

Any aid, advice and info will be much appreciated. I know there are great armor builders here. I just need pointed in the right direction on kits I will need to find.

I believe it's the one in the background in the first pic.

[JED]

Great project and I look forward to the answers to this one 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[ARMORGUY]

This is defo a question to be answered by Rustybaer my friend, he knows a lot, maybe everything on Shermans.
Not the easiest of conversions to put a Tiger body onto a T34.

[ogrejohn]

The Sherman was an M4E3 upgunned to a 76mm I believe. The Tiger was a modified T-34/85. There used to be a conversion kit from someone but who it was escapes me right now. I'd say it's probably out of production as it was some years ago. There were 3 of these "Tigers" made. One can be seen in the movie Saving Private Ryan I think. 

[DPNM]

Jan 31, 2021 1:22:17 GMT -6 JED said:

Great project and I look forward to the answers to this one 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Thanks Jed. This movie is in my top 5 favorites.

[DPNM]

Jan 31, 2021 2:51:59 GMT -6 ARMORGUY said:

This is defo a question to be answered by Rustybaer my friend, he knows a lot, maybe everything on Shermans.
Not the easiest of conversions to put a Tiger body onto a T34.

Thanks AG. I hope rustybaer sees, and responds with his knowledge. And anyone else who can point me in the right direction.

I didn't think the Tiger/T34 would be easy.

[DPNM]

Jan 31, 2021 7:26:18 GMT -6 ogrejohn said:

The Sherman was an M4E3 upgunned to a 76mm I believe. The Tiger was a modified T-34/85. There used to be a conversion kit from someone but who it was escapes me right now. I'd say it's probably out of production as it was some years ago. There were 3 of these "Tigers" made. One can be seen in the movie Saving Private Ryan I think. 

Thank you ogrejohn. I know Tamiya has a M4A1 kit. Not sure if that's the best place to start.

I'm pretty much clueless on this subject.

[reserve]

I think I'd look to Tamiya for your kits. It's possible, I guess, to combine a Tiger and a T34 but it would be an ambitious project with lots of planning; were I to do this I'd have to have them in front of me before I knew what to do and how to go about it.

I feel you've not done much in the way of armor by your opening statement and I feel you may want to do the M4 first to get your feet wet before getting submerged in the T-Tiger as it may be more complicated than meets the eye.

Academy might be a good source also, stay away from Dragon.

Hope this helps

Regards,
Mark

[ogrejohn]

I was mistaken about the Sherman. My understanding is it was a M4A3E4 and Formations Models used to make a resin conversion for the Tamiya M4A3. The Formations conversion is out of production but if you contact them they might make one for you. 
I still don't recall or can find who made the Tiger conversion. I do remember someone on Armorama built a model of the Tiger using that set. The hardest part, i think, to make a T34/85 into a Tiger would be getting the turret right. Its not a matter of just putting a Tiger turret on the hull of a T34/85. 

[ARMORGUY]

Jan 31, 2021 8:17:40 GMT -6 DPNM said:

Jan 31, 2021 2:51:59 GMT -6 ARMORGUY said:

This is defo a question to be answered by Rustybaer my friend, he knows a lot, maybe everything on Shermans.
Not the easiest of conversions to put a Tiger body onto a T34.

Thanks AG. I hope rustybaer sees, and responds with his knowledge. And anyone else who can point me in the right direction.

I didn't think the Tiger/T34 would be easy.

I'm sure you didn't. 

[dogfish7 (R.I.P.)]

Any of the M4s and all of it's Variants are a perfect place to start. There is a plethera of information on them, but you'd be better off to just grab a Tiger kit and not try all the tricks quite yet.

[Beekster]

For the Sherman, best place to start is with a good base hull from the likes of Asuka or Tamiya (the new-tool stuff, not the ancient kit from the '80s). The turret can be obtained from resin producers like New TMD. The tanks used in the film were Yugoslav Army tanks, which were all upgraded in the early 1950s before being sprinkled around the world as part of military assistance packages. They were indeed M4A3E4s, which had the 75mm gun replaced with the longer 76mm M1 without muzzle brake. Other changes included the vision cupola. I'd have to watch the movie again, but they may have had the torsion bars fitted to the engine deck doors to make them easier to open. Ages ago, Formations Models had a resin conversion set for the Kelly's Heroes tanks, and if you contact them you might be able to get a set cast up for you to use. As I recall, it had some of the various stowage odds and ends and the loudspeakers. The length of pipe to simulate a 90mm gun is easy to make from Evergreen tubing or brass.

[Dukemaddog]

I think Bruce has a great suggestion. If you try that conversion before you've cut your teeth on armor, that could turn you off completely to ever doing it again. My recommendation; build a few armored vehicles, Shermans, Tigers, maybe even a Panther or PZIV to get you used to doing the various techniques that armor modelers typically employ. After that, you'll be even more confident in doing a conversion like that T-34 Tiger For the body and turret, you'll need lots of sheet styrene as almost all of it is flat pieces fastened in place. The turret has one piece that curves around from one side to the other.

[Dukemaddog]

I was just wondering where Beekster was and was going to suggest contacting him too as he's the definitive Forum expert on all things Sherman.

Good to see you here Beekster!

[JCON]

I too am happy to have our Beekster back!!! You sir have been missed!!!

[Beekster]

Sorry to be gone so long. Between the pandemic upheavals and other assorted stuff, I found that I had run myself out of creative energy and motivation last summer. This happens occasionally, and when it does I just have to walk away for a while and do other stuff (like wargames). I usually let projects lie fallow for a few months, occasionally venturing to the bench to pick stuff up and look at it, then put it aside again. And over time, stuff percolates in the back of the brain and solutions to problems eventually present themselves. At that stage I begin to venture back to the bench to accomplish something. Sorry too about hijacking the thread...

Speaking of which, those Tigers were of course based on T-34s and the turrets were mocked up with sheet steel. Using a Tiger kit for the turret and gun will be problematic since it was so much bigger than a T-34. One of the ancient and inaccurate Tamiya Tiger kits from the early 70s might be a good one to grab just to mess around with. But Bruce has a great point about not letting your dreams overreach your skills with conversions like this right off the bat. I did it two decades ago and the results were...unusual. One of the threads here has a couple of pictures of that project, which used Steve-Zaloga's plans in an ancient FSM magazine for converting an Italeri M36B1 into a straight M36. I was in way over my head at the time and I don't recommend it.

[dogfish7 (R.I.P.)]

I was hoping the Beekster would show up! He and Rusty are our 2 best Shermanites.

[BUCKY]

Jan 31, 2021 16:14:49 GMT -6 dogfish7 (R.I.P.) said:

I was hoping the Beekster would show up! He and Rusty are our 2 best Shermanites.

I figured beekster would sniff out this Sherman query, sooner or later!! LoL

[DPNM]

Mark, John, Bruce and Mark: Thank you for the sage advice. I often jump in, both feet, long before I should. There is a lot to these builds and I should at least get some experience first. I'm keeping an eye on everyone's favorite auction site for either a really cheap kit, something that strikes my fancy or is what I'm looking for at a reasonable price.

I am used to building glossy/shiny models. This would pretty much be 180%s from that.

I have no practical weathering experience either but it is something I want to learn as it would be useful for what I usually build too.

[DPNM]

Jan 31, 2021 16:01:05 GMT -6 Beekster said:

Sorry to be gone so long. Between the pandemic upheavals and other assorted stuff, I found that I had run myself out of creative energy and motivation last summer. This happens occasionally, and when it does I just have to walk away for a while and do other stuff (like wargames). I usually let projects lie fallow for a few months, occasionally venturing to the bench to pick stuff up and look at it, then put it aside again. And over time, stuff percolates in the back of the brain and solutions to problems eventually present themselves. At that stage I begin to venture back to the bench to accomplish something. Sorry too about hijacking the thread...

Speaking of which, those Tigers were of course based on T-34s and the turrets were mocked up with sheet steel. Using a Tiger kit for the turret and gun will be problematic since it was so much bigger than a T-34. One of the ancient and inaccurate Tamiya Tiger kits from the early 70s might be a good one to grab just to mess around with. But Bruce has a great point about not letting your dreams overreach your skills with conversions like this right off the bat. I did it two decades ago and the results were...unusual. One of the threads here has a couple of pictures of that project, which used Steve-Zaloga's plans in an ancient FSM magazine for converting an Italeri M36B1 into a straight M36. I was in way over my head at the time and I don't recommend it.

I, too, am truly happy you responded to my post beekster. I appreciate your advice and thank you for sharing your knowledge. I hope to see more posts from you again. It's been quite a while. You didn't hijack my thread, you improved it.

I am going to try to start with little steps instead of the giant leaps as I am often prone to do, usually much to my chagrin.

Since armor is a process I am virtuously clueless on that is the wisest decision I can make.

I've got my eye on a couple kits that pique my interest already. I'm probably going to stick with Tamiya based kits.