Sherman ARV Mk.1 South Alberta Regiment

[JCON]

Looks like a real pain... give me rubber band tracks, ha, ha, ha!!!

[Beekster]

Mar 27, 2018 10:15:16 GMT -6 JCON said:

Looks like a real pain... give me rubber band tracks, ha, ha, ha!!!

I avoid those when I can.  Sometimes they are too long, and removing links makes for a smaller glue surface and a weaker joint.  If they are too short, or too stiff like the ancient Italeri tracks, they are either impossible to install at all or put incredible stress on the idler axles. Some, like Italeri, take paint of any kind poorly if at all.  With any indi-link track set, length & tension can be worked out easily, especially when kit manufacturers give you adjustable idlers.  Asuka has always done so, and more recent Tamiya kits do, too.  A few Dragon kits do, but older ones do not, and neither does Academy. I agree that these are significantly more tedious and challenging to assemble than Panda Plastics tracks, but there is method to my madness in trying the Bronco product here.  First, just to learn how they work and whether or not I can effectively work with them, since they tend to be significantly cheaper than Panda.  This set was nine bucks; I bought two sets plus shipping for the price of a single set of Pandas.  Second, Bronco offers a few track types that Panda does not, such as the T74 Steel Chevron.  Those are a post-war type that was very common on Israeli tanks, for example.  So Bronco opens up the options for more accurate models of certain subjects.  One thing I will say for their engineering is that it makes it simple to do other track types.  The big sprues are common to all sets, having the back (wheel) side of the track pads, end connectors, and pin rods all together.  The small sprues have the relevant ground-side track faces, which are completely interchangeable from an assembly standpoint.

[JCON]

Build cars, no tracks, ha, ha!!!

[BUCKY]

Sounds intense, beeks! Hope you have a soundproof hobby room!!

[JCON]

What happens in the hobby room stays in the hobby room...

[Beekster]

Not soundproofed, but above the garage and on the opposite side of the house from all the other frequently used rooms. And since most of my modeling is done while I'm alone at home, any verbal outbursts go unheard by anyone. These Bronco tracks don't have me cursing, but they will take longer than other brands to assemble. I'll work on them for half an hour, then go do something else for a while.

[Dukemaddog]

Seeing what you have to go through just keeps me thrilled that I only build in 1/72 scale! I haven't the capacity of patience, determination or perseverance that you have top deal with these types of tracks.

I commend you Sir and bow in your presence.

[Beekster]

Houston, we've had a problem...

Not insurmountable, but a problem. It has taken me all my bench time this week to get one track run to 83 shoes, which is what a long-hull Sherman should have. This is what it looks like:

You see the problem. Granted, the idler is adjusted to the back but the gap is much greater than the idler can account for. At least two more shoes will be required here. Now, why do you suppose that is? The Asuka kit is dimensionally spot-on, so things should work. This illustrates the problem:


Compared to a cobbled-up run of Panda Plastics track, it is clear that the Bronco links are a smidgen smaller. I haven't taken the calipers to them, but obviously over a run of 83 shoes the difference comes out to at least two shoes short. I'll take this run to 85, and start on the other one. I've pretty well worked out an assembly sequence for the track shoes, but the end connectors are tedious. There's not much contact area, they have a tendency to break off again, and I can only do a few at a time. Otherwise, I manage to get them a little wonky and they won't sit properly. I'll persevere with this set, but Bronco's method of making workable tracks is much less user-friendly than the officially un-workable method used by Panda & AFV Club. With those, just assemble them with a tiny drop of white glue on the pins and you're fine. They stay together, and have enough flex to be "workable" long enough to get them securely on the model.

[JCON]

Yup definitely shorter... do you have enough extra links to do both sides longer?

[Beekster]

Mar 31, 2018 11:59:44 GMT -6 JCON said:

Yup definitely shorter... do you have enough extra links to do both sides longer?

Oh yes, Joe.  The set comes with 192 links, so there's plenty of material to work with.

[JCON]

That is truly good news!!!

[Beekster]

Indeed.  But to be honest, I've never come across a link track set for Sherman-family vehicles that didn't have enough parts to do a long hull tank and then some.  What this does vividly illustrate is how the tolerances can stack up on you, and it is situations like this that have led me to make the idlers adjustable on every model I build (cross-kitting if required) and to shy away from fixed-length "rubber band" type tracks if possible.  With links you can dial in the track length to what a particular model needs in the first place, and adjust the tension so it doesn't sag.  Sherman track NEVER sags, unless it is burned out or worn beyond repair.  That is because there are rubber bushings in the shoes through which the track pins are inserted, and those impart a natural curl to the track.  Look at images of tracks stored on the factory floor and you will see this tendency.  The track wants to curl around the idler & sprocket and stay tensioned because of those bushings.  If the tank has burned or has run for decades so that the rubber degrades completely, the track will sag, but not until then.

[Beekster]

Change of plans once again. I'll be using the Panda track set I used as a backup. The Bronco set is simply too difficult to get into place, especially on this model which has so many fragile fittings on the sides and top. Making the track a finished loop doesn't give you enough room to work them past the A-frame bars and over the track skids. Working it as one length around everything to the bottom, making a last link there, is also fraught with danger because of the way the track goes together. This model is too fragile on too many sides to even attempt this. So, back to my standard Panda tracks and usual assembly methods. It's unfortunate, since Bronco costs a third of what Panda does, but they don't work for the way I build. If I built suspensions first and attached the track before any painting, they might be fine. And I might use them that way on a future project, if it requires so much mud that there's no base color visible below the sponson line. But for now they're back in the box on the shelf.

[JCON]

Sorry they didn't work out... in the future why not paint and weather them before installation? Just a thought...

[Beekster]

Apr 3, 2018 9:45:09 GMT -6 JCON said:

Sorry they didn't work out... in the future why not paint and weather them before installation? Just a thought...

I usually do that, Joe.  I painted the tracks before I installed them on the Lee CDL, for example.  The only times I install them before any paint goes on is for a totally mud-encrusted tank, and that isn't the vision for this project.  The Bronco set is inherently difficult to work with because of their design, and they turned out to be just too risky for this model that has so many protruding bits that can get broken off while handling it.  With Panda or AFV Club, track installation is easier.  The whole run can be slid over the track skids and engaged on the sprocket, and pulled around to the bottom.  The end connectors can be attached so that where the join happens, one shoe has the connector on the left and the mating shoe has it on the right,  Just push 'em together and you're done.

I won't be tossing the Bronco sets.  I've considered doing a whitewashed winter Firefly, and the Bronco track would be fine for that.  Build the lower hull and suspension, build the tracks, and glue it all together.  Somewhere in there use acrylic texture gels and static grass to get the built-up mud that tanks accumulate in winter.  Then during finishing paint the whole area in muddy dark browns  Only the upper works would show whitewash over the OD.

[JCON]

Sounds like a good plan!!!

[Beekster]

Now, this is looking better. One run of Panda T62 finished and test-fitted here using 82 links per side. Close enough for government work, as they say.

Now back to the bench to start the other side. With luck I'll have it complete and test-fitted tomorrow morning sometime, before I have to pick up the wife at work and head to the coast for the weekend. We didn't exactly plan it for this, but it looks like we will have a cozy storm-watching weekend.

[JCON]

Nice job Gov'nah!!!

[BUCKY]

Sharp looking stuff! Bummer about the storm watching.... that's what I'm doing right now!!

[JCON]

Nothing quite like sitting up on a cliff in your car watching a storm roll in from the Pacific with the clouds, wind, rain and massive surf!!! Loved doing that at Shell Beach in central California back in the early eighties!!! Sitting there with my favorite girl was the best...